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Alma
lds.org ^ | Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints

Posted on 05/05/2008 7:56:39 AM PDT by Old Mountain man

GUIDE TO THE SCRIPTURES Alma, Son of Alma See also Alma the Elder; Amulek; Mosiah, Sons of In the Book of Mormon, the first chief judge and prophet in the Nephite nation. In his early years he sought to destroy the Church (Mosiah 27: 8-10). However, an angel appeared to him and he was converted to the gospel (Mosiah 27: 8-24; Alma 36: 6-27). Later he gave up his position as chief judge in order to teach the people (Alma 4: 11-20). The book of Alma: A separate book in the Book of Mormon, comprising an abridgment of the records of the prophets Alma, the son of Alma, and his son Helaman. The events depicted in the book take place from approximately 91 to 52 B.C. The book contains 63 chapters. Chapters 1-4 describe the rebellion of the followers of Nehor and Amlici against the Nephites. The resulting wars were among the most destructive to that point in Nephite history. Chapters 5-16 contain the account of Alma’s early missionary journeys, including his sermon on the Good Shepherd (Alma 5) and his preaching with Amulek in the city Ammonihah. Chapters 17-27 contain the record of the sons of Mosiah and their ministry among the Lamanites. Chapters 28-44 contain some of Alma’s most important sermons. In chapter 32 Alma compared the word to a seed; in chapter 36 he recounted his conversion story to his son Helaman. Chapters 39-42 record Alma’s counsel to his son Corianton, who had become involved in moral transgression; this important sermon explains justice, mercy, resurrection, and the Atonement. Chapters 45-63 describe Nephite wars of that time period and migrations under Hagoth. Such great leaders as Captain Moroni, Teancum, and Lehi helped to preserve the Nephites through their courageous and timely actions.


TOPICS:
KEYWORDS: ctr; falsereligion; fldsagain; mountainmeadows; nephitemassacre
Alma was one of the Great evangelists and prophets of the Book of Mormon.
1 posted on 05/05/2008 7:56:42 AM PDT by Old Mountain man
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To: Old Mountain man

Dang. And I though Numbers was hard to read.


2 posted on 05/05/2008 7:58:55 AM PDT by AppyPappy (If you aren't part of the solution, there is good money to be made prolonging the problem.)
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To: AppyPappy

Try it, you’ll like it!


3 posted on 05/05/2008 8:04:23 AM PDT by Old Mountain man (Extremism in defense of liberty is no vice!)
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To: Old Mountain man

Should this thread be in the Religion forum, or is there something in it related to news/activism that I missed? Just asking...


4 posted on 05/05/2008 8:04:58 AM PDT by American Quilter (AIDS....drugs.......abortion......don't liberals just kill you?)
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To: Old Mountain man

We did. We sat in a Marriott one day and read through the BOM. It reads like a Michener novel. A non-Mormon slogging through the BOM is like an non-believer slogging through Numbers and Leviticus.

No wonder Smith picked it up cheap at a yard sale. :)

Our church even has a Book of Mormon in the church library.


5 posted on 05/05/2008 8:10:25 AM PDT by AppyPappy (If you aren't part of the solution, there is good money to be made prolonging the problem.)
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To: Old Mountain man

Here Freepers....from the Book of Alma:

10 Yea, we see that Amalickiah, because he was a man of cunning device and a man of many flattering words, that he led away the hearts of many people to do wickedly; yea, and to seek to adestroy the church of God, and to destroy the foundation of bliberty which God had granted unto them, or which blessing God had sent upon the face of the land for the crighteous’ sake.
11 And now it came to pass that when Moroni, who was the achief commander of the armies of the Nephites, had heard of these dissensions, he was angry with Amalickiah.
12 And it came to pass that he rent his coat; and he took a piece thereof, and wrote upon it—aIn memory of our God, our religion, and freedom, and our peace, our wives, and our children—and he fastened it upon the end of a pole.
13 And he fastened on his head-plate, and his abreastplate, and his shields, and girded on his armor about his loins; and he took the pole, which had on the end thereof his rent coat, (and he called it the btitle of liberty) and he cbowed himself to the earth, and he prayed mightily unto his God for the blessings of liberty to rest upon his brethren, so long as there should a band of dChristians remain to possess the land—
14 For thus were all the true believers of Christ, who belonged to the church of God, called by those who did not belong to the church.

Alma 46


6 posted on 05/05/2008 8:21:41 AM PDT by 47samurai (The last real conservative)
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To: Old Mountain man

Alma is a town in Georgia. And they make great profits on speeding tickets..........especially on Florida plates.....


7 posted on 05/05/2008 8:22:34 AM PDT by Red Badger ( We don't have science, but we do have consensus.......)
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To: Old Mountain man; AppyPappy; Colofornian
Alma 16:13: "And Alma and Amulek went forth preaching repentance to the people in their temples, and in their sanctuaries, and also in their synagogues, which were built after the manner of the Jews."

This statement assumes that these inhabitants of ancient America were aware of how the Jews built their synagogues. Synagogues were an integral part of Jewish society in the times of Jesus as we see in the New Testament. The synagogue was established for the study of the Law, and differed very much from the temple worship of the Old Testament period, which involved many sacrifices in keeping with the Law of Moses. Scientific and archaeological evidence points to the origin of synsgagues as being about the latter part of the intertestamental period.

How could Alma and Amulek know how the Jews built thier synagogues when the Jews themselves weren t building them before Lehi (supposedly) left for the Americas in 600 BC?

Why are plough-based crops such as barley (Alma 11:7) mentioned in the Book of Mormon when they didn't exist in the new world at that time?

In the book of Alma 28:14-29:1-11, more than 30 changes may be counted from the original edition, and on page 303 of the original edition the statement, "Yea, decree unto them that decrees which are unalterable," has been expurged. (See Alma 29:4.)

Alma 7:9, 10 states:
“the son of God cometh upon the face of the earth. And behold, he shall be born of Mary, at Jerusalem, which is the land of our forefathers.”,p. However, Bethlehem is not Jerusalem but an entirely separate city in those days.

Book of Alma, p.303; (1830): "yea, I know that he allotteth unto men, yea, decreeth unto them decrees which are unalterable,according to their wills.."
Book of Mormon (1950):Alma 29:4:"yea, I know that he allotteth unto men [?].according to their wills.. "
Today: Alma 29:4: "yea, I know that he allotteth unto men, yea, decreeth unto them decrees which are unalterable,.according to their wills.. "

Book of Alma, p.236; (1830): "I know that Jesus Christ shall come; yea the Son of the only begotten of the Father..."
Today: Alma 5:48: "I know that Jesus Christ shall come; yea the Son,[?] the only begotten of the Father..."

Book of Alma p.315; (1830): "But behold, as the seed swelleth and sprouteth and beginneth to grow, and then ye must needs say, That seed is good; for behold, it swelleth and sprouteth and beginneth to grow."
Today: Alma 32:30: "But behold, as the seed swelleth and sprouteth and beginneth to grow, and then ye must needs say, That seed is good; for behold, it swelleth and sprouteth and beginneth to grow. And now behold, will not this strengthen your faith? Yea, it will strengthen your faith: for ye will say that I know that this is a good seed; for behold, it sprouteth and beginneth to grow."

Book of Alma p.328; (1830): "yea, and that ye preserve these directors."
Today: Alma 37:21: "yea, and that ye preserve these interpreters."

Book of Alma p.328; (1830): "And now my son, these directors were prepared that the word of God might be fulfilled..."
Today: Alma 37:24: "And now my son, these interpreters were prepared that the word of God might be fulfilled..."

Alma 13:1: "...my brethren, I would cite your minds forward to the time when the Lord God gave these commandments unto his children..." How can you "cite" someone's mind "forward" to something that happened in the past?

Alma 24:19: "...they buried their weapons of peace, or they buried the weapons of war for peace." What is a weapon of peace, and can it be the same as a weapon of war?

Alma 43:38: "they being shielded from the more vital parts of the body,..." How does one shield oneself from the vital parts of one's own body?

The “horse” is mentioned in Alma 18:9-12 and Alma 20:6,however they were not in the americas until the arrival of the spanish.

In Alma 46:15, believers are called "Christians" in about 73 BC, which contradicts both common sense and Acts 11:26.

Yep, Alma is a hit

8 posted on 05/05/2008 9:12:27 AM PDT by Godzilla (I'm out of my mind, but feel free to leave a message.)
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To: Old Mountain man

All fiction. Like phony Moroni.


9 posted on 05/05/2008 9:21:49 AM PDT by beethovenfan (If Islam is the solution, the "problem" must be freedom.)
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To: Old Mountain man; Godzilla; P-Marlowe; Elsie; FastCoyote; Zakeet; greyfoxx39
ALMA

From: A BIOLOGIST LOOKS AT THE BOOK OF MORMON by Dr. Thomas Key (http://www.saintsalive.com/mormonism/biologist_looks.htm). Dr. Key said: I have thoroughly enjoyed my LDS friends. It is refreshing to be around people who live their convictions. So, it is not with malice, but with deep love and respect that I point out a few of the numerous scientific problems in the Book of Mormon.

OTHER BOTANICAL PROBLEMS 1 Nephi 13:7, Alma 1:29, and 4:6, Helaman 6:13 and Ether 10:4 speak of linen (flax cloth).

Plant grafting is mentioned in 1 Nephi 15:16 and Jacob 5, yet there is no evidence that the Indians practiced this in 600 BC - 421 AD. Pruning is mentioned in 2 Nephi 15:6 and faces a similar problem. To describe seed and plant growth as "swelling" (Alma 32:28-34 and 33:23) is naive and grossly inaccurate. It reflects the error of preformationism (a discredited scientific hypothesis which held that the entire totality of the mature organism is contained in miniature in the seed).

ZOOLOGICAL PROBLEMS: Satyrs (2 Nephi 23:21) and dragons (2 Nephi 23:22,8:9) are mentioned as literal creatures. Chickens (3 Nephi 10:4-6) and dogs (Alma 16:10, Mosiah 12:2, and 3 Nephi 7:8) were non-existent here at the timeSilk is erroneously mentioned as being produced in the Americas at that time (1 Nephi 13:7, Alma 4:6 and Ether 9:1 7 and 10:24). But silkworm moths had not yet been introduced from Asia.

MICRO-BIOLOGICAL PROBLEMS Alma 46:40 attributes "the cause of disease to ... the nature of the climate," instead of to fifth, poor diet, or germs. Alma 16:1 tells us that the stench of those killed in one battle was so strong that "the people did not go in to possess the land of Ammonihah for many years ... and their lands remained desolate." Action of bacteria, fungi, worms, insects, vultures etc., would require no more than a few weeks at the very most to disposes of these carcasses and their odors-not "many years!"

PHYSIOLOGICAL PROBLEMSAlma 57:25 asserts that all in an army of 2,060 received many wounds, yet none died.

The implied reproduction rate in the Book of Mormon is astronomical! The story starts in 600 BC and ends in 421 AD. It involves a handful of people who travel from "the land of Jerusalem" [sic] to the Promised Land of America. Every four or five years or so there are devastating wars that kill many thousands of people (Alma 28:2, etc.), or as Ether 15:2 says, "nearly two millions of mighty men" in addition to their wives and children. For this to be so, it would be necessary for each couple to have scores of children, and for them to reach maturity in three or so years throughout the supposed period between 600 BC and 421 AD.

The description of the resurrection body in Alma 40:23 is astounding to say the least. It says that nothing shall be lost, not even a hair. In light of the fact that we shed a few score body and head hairs every week, and we "decommission" countless blood, skin, and other cells weekly, it is unrealistic to assert that all of these lost parts will be restored to us.

PHYSICAL AND CHEMICAL PROBLEMS: Alma 24:16 speaks of burying swords in the earth to keep them bright. On the contrary, this would speed their rusting. Even stainless steel would rust eventually under those conditions.

TECHNOLOGICAL PROBLEMS It is erroneous for a book supposedly written in North America at that time to mention… scimitars (Alma 2:12)… chariots (Alma 18:12; 20:6; 3 Nephi 21:14)…forts (Alma 48:8), a javelin (Alma 51:34)…head plate and armor for the loins (Alma 46:13), compass (Alma 37:38, 44), spindles and spinning (Alma 37:40), sickles (Alma 26:5), yoke (1 Nephi 13:5), strong cords (Alma 26:29)…

OTHER CULTURAL PROBLEMS include references to mammon (a Greek god of wealth3 Nephi 13:24), lawyers and judges (Alma 10: 14-15 and 3 Nephi 6: 1)… . 2 Nephi 5:23 and Alma 3:6-10 say that anyone who marries an Indian "shall be cursed with the same cursing." If this were true, why do people who are only part Indian not look full Indian?

THE TOP EIGHT ABSURDITIES OF THE BOOK OF ALMA IN THE BOOK OF MORMON:

(1) Alma 7:10: All those Christmas carols and hymns need to be re-recorded!!! Let’s get those tourist routes altered in modern-day Israel! Luke 2:4-7 must be wrong! Jesus wasn’t born in Bethlehem. Nope! (He was born in Jerusalem, says the Book of Mormon)

(2a) Alma 3:5-6: The Lamanites were naked, and their skins were dark because of a curse from God.
(2b) Alma 3:8-9 God darkened the skin of the Lamanites (Native Americans) to keep them separate from the Nephites. AND Whoever "mingles his seed" with the Lamanites will be cursed by God and will "bring the same curse upon his seed." (Their children will have dark skins.)
(2c) Alma 3:10 Whoever is led away by the Lamanites will have "a mark set upon him." (God will darken his skin?)
(2d) Alma 3:14: God darkened the skin of the Lamanites (Native Americans) to forever separate them from the Nephites.
(2e) Alma 3:15 Whoever "mingles his seed" with the Lamanites will be cursed by God. (They and their children will have dark skins.)

The following perhaps shows why so many Mormons like latching on to an "anti" title & waving it at those they disagree with!
(3a) Alma 23:17 The Lamanites that converted were called "Anti-Nephi-Lehies." Now that's a catchy name!
(3b) Alma 23:18 God's curse of the Lamanites was lifted from the "Anti-Nephi-Lehies." So did their skin became "white and delightsome" again?
(3c) Alma 24:3 The king named his son "Anti-Nephi-Lehi."

(4) Alma 46:13-16 & 48:10 The Nephites were all "Christians"--"true believers of Christ" -- 73 or so years before Christ was born, and well over 100 years before the Bible (Whereas Acts 11:26 claims the followers of Christ were first called "Christians".)
(5) Alma19:5 [Ah, he’s not stinky…well, no more than he usually was] Tthe Queen says her husband has been dead for 2 days & 2 nights "Others say that he is dead and that he stinketh ... but as for myself, to me he doth not stink."
(6) Alma 48:15 "God would prosper them in the land, or in other words,...God...would prosper them in the land." [In other words, my instinct tells me that God would prosper them in the land…boy it’s a tough thing those gold plates were so hard to write on…otherwise I’m sure we would have rec’d more details]
(7) [Ah, a new Guiness record!] Joseph Smith used "behold" 27 times in Alma 26! This may be the most "beholds" in any chapter in literature. (The most it's ever used in the King James Version is 21 in Lev.13.)
(8) [Here, write this financial conversion chart in case you’re out on a picnic & find random gold plates or silver plates in the ground] : Alma 11:5-19: Now the reckoning is thus -- a senine of gold, a seon of gold, a shum of gold, and a limnah of gold. A senum of silver, an amnor of silver, an ezrom of silver, and an onti of silver. A senum of silver was equal to a senine of gold .....Now an antion of gold is equal to three shiblons. [got it?] Source for above: “Absurdity in the Book of Mormon” see http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/BOM/abs/long.html

10 posted on 05/06/2008 1:30:18 AM PDT by Colofornian
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To: Old Mountain man

Just LOOK at the stuff you can get people to believe if you listen to two deceiving spirits!


11 posted on 05/06/2008 4:59:33 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Colofornian; Godzilla
Your listing of factual issues contained in the Book of Mormon are compelling enough to lead any independent person to conclude the entire story must have been concocted by an individual with no more than a third grade education.

For the benefit of those who have not thoroughly examined the Book of Mormon, the document contains many, many more errors not mentioned by Colorfornian or Godzilla. Perhaps my favorite is the story of the migration of the Jerodite people from the Middle East at the time of the Tower of Babel -- in nothing less than submarine barges.

One last point should be noted. The Book Alma contradicts several essential Mormon doctrines found in other LDS Scripture. For example:

For these reasons, among many others, it is unusual to see Latter-day Saints post passages from Mormon Scripture in public forums which invite discussion and critical analysis.
12 posted on 05/06/2008 5:02:00 AM PDT by Zakeet (Be thankful we don't get all the government we pay for)
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To: Colofornian; greyfoxx39; Tennessee Nana; colorcountry; aMorePerfectUnion; P-Marlowe
Alma 11:5-19

Now the reckoning is thus -- a senine of gold, a seon of gold, a shum of gold, and a limnah of gold. A senum of silver, an amnor of silver, an ezrom of silver, and an onti of silver. A senum of silver was equal to a senine of gold .....Now an antion of gold is equal to three shiblons.

I hear that the LDS Organization® is filing suit against the estate of Dr. Suess for plagiarism.

13 posted on 05/06/2008 5:04:08 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: American Quilter

The mods have declared that the news forum is the place for all things mormon.


14 posted on 05/06/2008 6:09:13 AM PDT by greyfoxx39 (FLDS.... making babies with children because their God wants earthly bodies for spirit babies.)
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To: colorcountry; Pan_Yans Wife; MHGinTN; Colofornian; Elsie; FastCoyote; Osage Orange; Greg F; ...

The Flying Inmans take to the skies to fly the Ilky Way! (John 14:6)


15 posted on 05/06/2008 6:12:44 AM PDT by greyfoxx39 (FLDS.... making babies with children because their God wants earthly bodies for spirit babies.)
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To: AppyPappy
Be careful replying to OMM. He doesn't like to be annoyed.
16 posted on 05/06/2008 6:20:03 AM PDT by Virginia Ridgerunner ("We must not forget that there is a war on and our troops are in the thick of it!"--Duncan Hunter)
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To: greyfoxx39

And it is b*ll shi*t to do so.


17 posted on 05/06/2008 6:25:53 AM PDT by svcw (There is no plan B.)
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To: Elsie
I hear that the LDS Organization® is filing suit against the estate of Dr. Suess for plagiarism.

As well as using chasimus

18 posted on 05/06/2008 6:27:09 AM PDT by Godzilla (I'm out of my mind, but feel free to leave a message.)
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To: svcw; American Quilter; greyfoxx39

Wouldn’t that then open the door for ALL religious discussions to be posted in News/Activism?

I can see threads about any religion that has political or social involvement but one to just promote a religion?


19 posted on 05/06/2008 6:30:29 AM PDT by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: metmom

So the question becomes: why is it that FR has started promoting lds on news forums?


20 posted on 05/06/2008 6:32:56 AM PDT by svcw (There is no plan B.)
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To: svcw

Your guess is as good as mine.


21 posted on 05/06/2008 6:54:11 AM PDT by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: metmom; svcw; American Quilter
Evidently admin sees some wisdom in this.

I imagine the FR converts are knocking down the doors of the mormon members requesting baptism into mormonism after reading all this.

22 posted on 05/06/2008 6:59:39 AM PDT by greyfoxx39 (FLDS.... making babies with children because their God wants earthly bodies for spirit babies.)
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To: metmom; P-Marlowe; Colofornian; Elsie; ansel12; svcw; Zakeet; JRochelle; narses
Wouldn’t that then open the door for ALL religious discussions to be posted in News/Activism?

Nope.

Ever hear the expression "The squeaky wheel gets the grease"?

It appears to me that the ever-persecuted mormons have a problem with the exposure of the beliefs of the FLDS, and require equal time. Also, they get their tender feelings hurt when the validity of their religion is questioned. Can't have hurt feelings, now can we?

23 posted on 05/06/2008 7:05:35 AM PDT by greyfoxx39 (FLDS.... making babies with children because their God wants earthly bodies for spirit babies.)
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To: Virginia Ridgerunner

I keep telling all of you he needs HUGS! If he had them he wouldn’t be so grumpy.......sending a hug to HIM ( I am scared to say his name)


24 posted on 05/06/2008 7:08:25 AM PDT by pandoraou812 (Doesn't share well with others so I could never ..... Keep it Sweet!!!!)
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To: Godzilla

I’m curious, did people speak like that when the Book of Mormon was found? If not, why was it translated into the King James type English?

susie


25 posted on 05/06/2008 7:10:52 AM PDT by brytlea (amnesty--an act of clemency by an authority by which pardon is granted esp. to a group of individual)
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To: Old Mountain man; P-Marlowe; Zakeet; Elsie; greyfoxx39
Book of Alma

Dean Helland comes from a Reorganized LDS family. Note the Alma parallels (see list below starting @ #9)...URL linkage of Helland's article @ end.

Old Testament Book of Mormon characters were modeled after New Testament persons. Note the following comparison between Alma and Paul: [original source: H. Michael Marquardt, THE USE OF THE BIBLE IN THE BOOK OF MORMON, (1979: reprint, Salt Lake City: Utah Lighthouse Ministry, n.d.), 102-104]
1) Both tried to "destroy the Church" before their conversions.(Mosiah 27:8-9; 11:159-161; Acts 9:1-2)
2) Both were on a "mission of persecution" the day they were converted. (Mosiah 27:10-20; 11:162-176; Acts 9:3-6)
3) In both cases, those "present fell to the earth." (Mosiah 27:18; 11:177; Acts 26:14)
4) In both cases, a voice spoke which others could not understand. (Mosiah 27:12; 11:164; Acts 9:7)
5) Both were asked by the voice why they were fighting against the work of God. (Mosiah 27:13; 11:165; Acts 9:4-5)
6) Both were helpless and needed assistance by their companions. (Mosiah 27:19; 11:179-180; Acts 9:8)
7) Both fasted as a result of this experience. (Mosiah 27:22-23; 11:183-185; Acts 9:9)
8) Both preached soon after their conversions. (Mosiah 27:32; 11:185ff; Acts 9:19-20)
9) Both worked with their hands to support their ministries. (Alma 30:32; 17:40; 2 Thes. 3:8)
10) Both healed a man with a fever. (Alma 15:5-11; 10:930100; Acts 28:8)
11) Both were imprisoned. (Alma 14:17; 10:60; Acts 17:23)
12) Both prayed while in prison. (Alma 14:26: 19:76-77; Acts 16:25)
13) Both experienced an earthquake while in prison. (Alma 14:26; 10:79; Acts 16:26)
14) In both cases, their shackles came off. (Alma 14:26; 10:77; Acts 16:26)
15) Both taught the same messages. (Alma 12:12, 22, 25, 27 36-37; 1 Cor. 15:53, Rom. 14:12, Rom 5:12, 1 Cor. 15:21-22; Heb. 9:27, Heb. 3:15, Heb. 4:11)

Examples of how the teachings and even the words of Alma and St. Paul closely resemble each other are as follows: (Marquardt, p. 105):
“faith, hope and charity” - Alma 7:24; 5:41 / I Cor. 13:13
“the power of God unto salvation” - Alma 15:6; 10:95/Rom.1:16
“without God in the world” – Alma 41:11; 19:75 / Eph. 2:12
“”lay aside every sin, which easily doth beset you” – Alma 7:15; 5:26 / Heb. 12:1
“it was appointed unto men that they must die; and after death they must come to judgment” – Alma 12:27; 9:46 / Heb. 9:27 See http://www.deanhelland.com/English/Book_Of_Mormom_Probs.htm

26 posted on 05/06/2008 7:56:40 AM PDT by Colofornian
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To: Elsie

Let me see, you would be one and P-Marlowe the other. Cool.


27 posted on 05/06/2008 8:08:05 AM PDT by Old Mountain man (Extremism in defense of liberty is no vice!)
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To: Old Mountain man; Elsie

Have you two lovebirds picked out a china pattern yet?


28 posted on 05/06/2008 8:09:17 AM PDT by AppyPappy (If you aren't part of the solution, there is good money to be made prolonging the problem.)
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To: brytlea

Don’t confuse them with the facts.


29 posted on 05/06/2008 8:09:36 AM PDT by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: Colofornian

As you know, it is well established that Joseph Smith plagiarized the King James Version of the Bible when he translated the Book of Mormon.

The above illustration is but one of many compelling illustrations of the extent to which Smith borrowed from the immortal classic.

30 posted on 05/06/2008 8:09:52 AM PDT by Zakeet (Be thankful we don't get all the government we pay for)
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To: Old Mountain man; P-Marlowe; Zakeet; Elsie; greyfoxx39; teancumspirit
Dean Helling… http://www.deanhelland.com/English/Book_Of_Mormom_Probs.htm also cited Vernal Holley, BOOK OF MORMON AUTHORSHIP: A CLOSER LOOK,(Ogden:Zenos, 1983).

[Teancumspirit, note the last list with "Teancum" having been derived from "Tenecum" from a Spaulding manuscript]

Ever since the publication of the Book of Mormon in 1830, it has been accused of being a plagiarism from unpublished manuscripts by Solomon Spaulding. For many years the Spaulding manuscripts could not be located to verify this. When one named Manuscript Found finally was located, both the LDS and the RLDS published it, giving the impression that there was no resemblance between it and the Book of Mormon and that its publication would end this speculation. A superficial reading makes it obvious that the Book of Mormon was not copied from it as such. Still, there have been mixed feelings about this matter. Walter Martin, a cult specialist, even published a book, Who Really Wrote the Book of Mormon? explaining that Spaulding had written a later manuscript which was in fact the basis for the Book of Mormon. The evidence presented by Martin has been challenged by both the LDS church and some of the its critics, but the theory itself has not been laid to rest. Vernal Holley put the controversy in the spotlight again by minutely comparing parallels between the Book of Mormon and the existing Spaulding manuscript. The following are his documented conclusions, with which the author concurs after a personal analysis of Manuscript Found.

1. The outlines of the Book of Mormon and the Spaulding text are "essentially the same."
2. Both records claim to have been found in "the same way."
3. Both were "written for the same purpose."
4. Both "tell the story of the same ancient American inhabitants."
5. Both "have the same sea voyage."
6. Both "have light-skinned and dark-skinned people.
7. Both "tell of the same arts and sciences."
8. Both "have a comparable Christian theology."
9. Both "present a white God-person."
10. Both "involve use of seer stones."
11. Both claim to "contain an abridged history of the extinct inhabitants of ancient America."
12. Both describe how the record was deposited, protected supernaturally, and how its finder made a translation of it.
13. Both state that it "will come forth . . .when the Europeans (gentiles) inhabit this land (M.F., 3-4; I Nephi 13:35; 3:184-185).
14. Both "translators" testify of the truthfulness of the work and request that the readers read it "with a pure heart" (M.F., 2-3; Moroni 10:4-5; 10:4-5).20
15. Both have the earth revolving about the sun-something unknown until 1543 A.D. (M.F., 16; Helaman 12:13-15; 4:61-62).
16. A theological address by an Indian chief in Spaulding's manuscript contains "the same thoughts" and they are "in the same order" as in a similar address in the Book of Mormon by King Benjamin (M.F., 26-32; Mosiah 1-4; 1-2).
17. Spaulding's leader teaches from a "sacred roll," while King Benjamin teaches from "plates of brass."
18. The religious section of Spaulding is written in the chiastic style, which is found throughout the Book of Mormon.
19. Lobaska's rule over two empires and his golden age of peace parallels Christ's effect on the peoples in the Book of Mormon.
20. Both include coins and fortifications.
21. Both have similar scenes of bloodshed, even down to the final combats between enemy commanders.
22. Both depict a "little band" of warriors: 3,000 in M. F. and 2,000 Nephi-Lehis in the Book of Mormon.
Besides these parallels, there are literally hundreds of identical or similar word combinations. In order to conserve space, only a few are listed below:26
rights of their country (M.F., 31; 3 Nephi 6:30; 3:35)
Crying with a loud voice (80; Alma 46:19; 21:48)
He put forth his hand and (28; Alma 30:51; 16:63)
An immense slaughter (101; Alma 49:21; 21:174)
mourning and lamentation (84; Helaman 7:15; 3:16)
according to their numbers (54; 3 Nephi 6:3; 3:4)
Helling, citing Holley, writes: Even more surprising than these parallels, however, is the land area described in the two books. Holley emphasizes that Book of Mormon geography quite neatly matches the land described in Manuscript. Thus the "sea east" becomes Lake Ontario and the "sea west" becomes Lake Erie rather than, as Mormons have assumed, the Atlantic and Pacific Oceans. Locating the River Sidon has always been a difficulty for Book of Mormon scholars. With this model, however, the River Sidon handily becomes the present-day Genesee River. Another problem has been the width of the "small neck of land" in the Book of Mormon, which is described as "a day and a half's journey" from sea to sea (Alma 22:32; 13:76). The distance of thirty-seven miles between these two lakes fits the description much better than the distance of over one hundred thirty miles at the Isthmus of Panama. Sixty-seven ancient fortified earthworks have been found at this location.

Spaulding lived in this area and had first-hand knowledge of the earthworks, names and geographical locations that are portrayed in his writings. By imposing the Book of Mormon descriptions on maps of these areas, the following modern place names are found to coincide with the cities and lands in the Book of Mormon:
Comparison of Modern Names [Listed first] vs. Book of Mormon Names [Listed second]
Angola - Angola
Boaz - Boaz
Jerusalem - Jerusalem
Jordan - Jordan
Lehigh - Lehi
Rama - Ramah
St. Agathe - - Ogath
Alma - Valley of Alma
Antrim - Antum
Antioch - Anti-Anti
Conner - Comner
St. Ephrem Hill - Ephraim
Hellam - Helam
Jacobsburg - Jacobugath
Kishkiminetas - Kishkumen
Mantua - Manti
Monroe - Moroni
Minoa - Minon
Moraviantown - Morianton
Morin - Moron
Noah Lake - Land of Noah
Oneida - Onidah
Oneida Castle - Hill Onidah
Omer - Omner
Ripple Lake - Waters of Ripliancum
Sodom - Sidom
Shiloh - Shilom
Shurbrook - Shurr
Tenecum - Teancum

31 posted on 05/06/2008 8:18:29 AM PDT by Colofornian
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To: Godzilla; colorcountry; greyfoxx39; P-Marlowe
Alma 16:13: "And Alma and Amulek

this is too funny. Amalek is the personification of evil in Judaism, and no self-respecting believer would ever name someone Amalek, Amulek, or any deriviation thereof. It's like a Christian nowadays naming their son Satan.

32 posted on 05/06/2008 9:15:36 AM PDT by 1000 silverlings (Everything that deceives also enchants: Plato)
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To: svcw
So the question becomes: why is it that FR has started promoting lds on news forums?

That is where the MORMONs want them!!!

Who will look at their stuff hidden away on a RELIGION forum???

33 posted on 05/06/2008 10:47:46 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: greyfoxx39
Also, they get their tender feelings hurt when the validity of their religion is questioned. EXPOSED!
34 posted on 05/06/2008 10:48:43 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: brytlea
If not, why was it translated into the King James type English?

Satan tries to emulate the TRUTH as close as possible.

That's why the language is so much like KJ English.

(Besides; it's REAL hard to copy all that stuff and paraphrase it at the same time!)

35 posted on 05/06/2008 10:50:35 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Colofornian

ACTS = 4 letters...
ALMA = 4 letters...


36 posted on 05/06/2008 10:51:21 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Admin Moderator; P-Marlowe
Let me see, you would be one and P-Marlowe the other. Cool.

SOMEone just called me and P_Marlowe decieving spirits!

37 posted on 05/06/2008 10:53:23 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: 1000 silverlings

alma means MOTHER in latin


38 posted on 05/06/2008 10:55:02 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Elsie

You have to admit it was witty


39 posted on 05/06/2008 10:56:22 AM PDT by AppyPappy (If you aren't part of the solution, there is good money to be made prolonging the problem.)
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To: Elsie

Latin, now there’s an ancient Hebrew language!


40 posted on 05/06/2008 11:00:35 AM PDT by 1000 silverlings (Everything that deceives also enchants: Plato)
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To: AppyPappy

I laughed :)


41 posted on 05/06/2008 11:11:44 AM PDT by bonfire
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To: brytlea
I’m curious, did people speak like that when the Book of Mormon was found? If not, why was it translated into the King James type English?

That is a remarkable question that fails to be answered.

42 posted on 05/07/2008 8:15:34 AM PDT by Godzilla (I'm out of my mind, but feel free to leave a message.)
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To: 1000 silverlings; Elsie
Latin, now there’s an ancient Hebrew language!

Latin!!!! I was just starting to get my mind around reformed egyptian hieroglyphics.


43 posted on 05/07/2008 8:18:35 AM PDT by Godzilla (I'm out of my mind, but feel free to leave a message.)
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To: AppyPappy
You have to admit it was witty

Halfway...

44 posted on 05/07/2008 9:59:35 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Godzilla

I know, I expected to be inundated with answers!
susie


45 posted on 05/07/2008 12:19:15 PM PDT by brytlea (amnesty--an act of clemency by an authority by which pardon is granted esp. to a group of individual)
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To: brytlea
I know, I expected to be inundated with answers! susie

hope you brought your crossword (or what ever) to occupy your wait :)

46 posted on 05/07/2008 12:49:47 PM PDT by Godzilla (I'm out of my mind, but feel free to leave a message.)
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To: Godzilla

Sudoku! ;)
susie


47 posted on 05/07/2008 2:43:46 PM PDT by brytlea (amnesty--an act of clemency by an authority by which pardon is granted esp. to a group of individual)
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