1 out of every 5th person in this world is Chinese.

So the shock isn’t that Angola now has a “Chinatown”, but why every other country doesn’t.

West is afraid of Dark Continent for most part it seems. Bad news for US coming out of Africa is considered much worse than for example bad news coming out of Iraq or Afghanistan. Death of 20 US soldiers was enough for Clinton to withdraw from Somalia, but no one is willing to withdraw from Iraq or Afghanistan.

Chinese would BENEFIT Africa in my view, just as they are good for INDONESIA and MALAYSIA among other ASEAN Nations.

All the leading businessmen and entrepreuners in those Countries are of Chinese Heritage. I don’t think Indonesians and Malaysians are worse off for it. They are one of the leading growth economies and that’s a good thing.

Africa has the HIGHEST population growth rate amongst all Continents. It would be hard for *any* race to out grow Africans. Especially not the “elites”, who tend to not want have babies anyway because it is so much more fun to do so many other things.

My freind from South Korea told me that within 2 decades, South Korea like Japan would have NEGATIVE population growth rate, and since none of those Countries encourage or accept immigrants, they would suffer the consequences.

Success in Capitalism seems to reduce people’s desire to have babies is my point.

We make up for it with having higher birth-rate than Europeans and obviously through immigration and that keeps us strong.

If Chinese do not take elitist and racist and dominant attitude towards Africans, then they could possibly co-exist and prosper in Africa. We may have a new people knows as Chafricans. Who knows?

However if they try to form a separate society, and treat Africans as inferiors, then they would be well advised to view on what is going on in Zimbabwe and South Africa.

JMO.

'I should expect that the African seaboard, now sparsely occupied by lazy, palavering savages, might in a few years be tenanted by industrious, order-loving Chinese, living either as a semidetached dependency of China, or else in perfect freedom under their own law.'

Hmmmm ... I realize this statement calls for a response, but I will leave it to those with a better knowledge of prose.

Interesting series about China/Africa connection.

http://www.fastcompany.com/magazine/126/special-report-china-in-africa.html

And I do believe the Chinese are establishing a seperate society. They do not meddle in local affairs. Their main goal is to benefit China.

I don’t really care that much. Let the Chinese go in there and invest - they can deal with the corruption, disease, rascim, claims of imperialism, etc...

China isn’t in Africa for any altruistic reasons. She’s there for the raw materials and energy and that’s the sole extent of her interest. Her dealings will enrich a few of the local strongmen but will leave the average African as bad off, if not worse off than he would have been without China’s presence. Witness Sudan and Darfur.

I am disappointed if my post came across as implying that China was in Africa for altruistic reasons.

The invisible hand is a good thing! Remember? With all the Liberal brainwashing, we are beginning to forget that.

Pursuit of “happiness” guided by invisible hand is what made us great and if more people allow the invisible-hand to function freely, they would become great too.

“And Why The West Should Be VERY Worried”

Why?

Colonialism is a good thing. It should have been in our founding documents: the right to colonize.

Leaving Africa to its own devices has been a failure all around. Being taken over by China will be just the last item in a long list of failures.

My best guess is because China has historically been restrained almost solely due to a lack of resources and governmental corruption. Colonizing Africa gives them resources.

I don’t see a problem with this. Saddle the Chinese with Africa and see what they can make of it.
At least they’re not hampered by the West’s “delicate sensibilities.”

At this point, Africa is in dire need of a fresh dose of “colonialism”. Since the world is squeamish about the Western version, I guess the Eastern version will have to do.

Exactly. China is not interested in Africa for any other reason except what helps China.

The only real hope for Africa is a huge dose of Christianity. Some of the stories like Rwanda, Darfur and Zimbabwe are just too unbelievable to be real.

Deep Chinese involvement will do nothing to change the present nature of Africa ... have at it!

schu

If you read Philip Snow’s excellent book The Star Raft, he shows ( book is 20 years old) that Chinese interest in and penetration of Africa is very old news. Whree it failed in the past was because what African nation could ever become as regimented and single minded as Mao’s China. Now however the agents of the PRC arrive in Sayville Row suits and speak the language of international finance, with military hardware thrown in.They don’t bother the local leaders with niceties like civil rights. They very much remind me of good old American Organized Crime. As Michael might be paraphrased, for the Chinese in Africa “It’s business,not ideology.”

Wow! While the West is asleep, the Chinese are colonizing Africa.

“With little fanfare, a staggering 750,000 Chinese have settled in Africa over the past decade. More are on the way.

The strategy has been carefully devised by officials in Beijing, where one expert has estimated that China will eventually need to send 300 million people to Africa to solve the problems of over-population and pollution.

The plans appear on track. Across Africa, the red flag of China is flying. Lucrative deals are being struck to buy its commodities - oil, platinum, gold and minerals. New embassies and air routes are opening up. The continent’s new Chinese elite can be seen everywhere, shopping at their own expensive boutiques, driving Mercedes and BMW limousines, sending their children to exclusive private schools.

The pot-holed roads are cluttered with Chinese buses, taking people to markets filled with cheap Chinese goods. More than a thousand miles of new Chinese railroads are crisscrossing the continent, carrying billions of tons of illegally-logged timber, diamonds and gold.”

Africa has demonstrated that they can do worse to themselves than would the Chinese.

Which is to say: China would be an improvement. Go for it. Just don’t ask for U.S. help unless you’ve shed blood or money for the U.S. (e.g. Ethiopia helping us in Somalia).

Let the Chinese go in there and invest - they can deal with the corruption, disease, rascim, claims of imperialism, etc...

Some big differences between China and the US:

(1)They will not care about being called racist or imperialist

(2)They will not hesitate to use force if some African despot tries to nationalize their assets or kill their people

(3)They have no need for Africans. They have plenty of Chinese to do the work

The net result of Chinese colonization of Africa might just resemble the British colonization of North America (which didn't work out well for the Native Americans)

“China would be an improvement. “

Good point!

“Just don’t ask for U.S. help unless you’ve shed blood or money for the U.S.’

— Another good point. The US is sending Billions of dollars to Africa.

However if they try to form a separate society, and treat Africans as inferiors, then they would be well advised to view on what is going on in Zimbabwe and South Africa.

Let's say the Chinese brought lots of their people into Zimbabwe to get the country rolling again. Lots of young men of military age. And lets say that after a while the ZANU-PF thugs decide to hassle the Chinese.

Would the world care at this stage if the Chinese decided to arm their immigrants, and the Chinese proceeded to exterminate the Zimbabweans?

If that were to happen, I would suspect world would care to a degree. It won’t go unnoticed.

However, Chinese would be out of their mind if they think they have reached a point where they can occupy a Country and face insurgency thousands of miles away.

Their economic interest would be wiped out at that point.

Its costing us 10 billion a month to stay in Iraq.

Chinese would be dreaming if they thought they could afford to engage in that behavior.

Don’t forget that Obama wants to send an additional $50+ billion a year (Global Poverty Act)above the billions already being squandered to third world countries including those in Africa

“The net result of Chinese colonization of Africa might just resemble the British colonization of North America (which didn’t work out well for the Native Americans)”

It might net out more like the Spanish colonization of South America.

Of course, that didn’t work out perfectly for Native Americans, either.

Interesting thoughts.

The problem, as this article describes it, is that Chinese immigration to Africa is sponsored by the Communist Chinese government, as contrasted with the diaspora of Chinese immigrants in other parts of the globe.

There is an agenda behind this; a form of neo-colonialism wthout any of the western virtues (and there were many) that accompanied the 19th Century colonization of Africa. That colonization included missionary efforts which provided schools, hospitals, and impartation of the western worldview.

Many will say that that effort failed, but the aspiration for human rights are being played out in Zimbabwe today.

What do the Chinese offer ?

Once China controls Africa, the Africans will wish that the Britishers were back.

The only real hope for Africa is a huge dose of Christianity

BUMP to that ~

heh-heh

“And Why The West Should Be VERY Worried”

Because there are a lot of things industrial societies need, (cobalt and chromium are two) that are available only from Africa and Russia.

More details here.

Because there are a lot of things industrial societies need, (cobalt and chromium are two) that are available only from Africa and Russia.

_______________________________________________

Chromium is available from Turkey, Finland, Brazil, Albania, Ukraine, New guinea and a few other places besides Russia and Africa (SA & Zimbabwe). Turkey and Albania both have deeper reserves than Russia does. During WW@ Hitler got nearly all his chromium from Attaturk as part of a 'mutual non-aggrsssion pact".

let Bono go whine to the Chi-coms for more guilt trip Aids money too

I always believed that Africa was better under colonialism or at the very least, not ready for self rule when decolonization started around 1960 or so. Africa has a vast wealth of resources but it lacks the infrastructure and technical know-how how to get them. Africa also need a modern day Cecil Rhodes to be able to some up with the infrastructure needed along with the engineering. I have been flamed in other places with my views but I still stick to them.

However, reading about Red China expanding into Africa, I think our latter day Cecil Rhodes will most likely be a Chinaman. We must be very concerned here in the West, but in a way we did it to ourselves, the West left Africa, except for giving out money that does little or no good, and as the saying goes, "nature abhors a vacuum" so the Red Chinese move in.

Come to think of it, IIRC, the Chinese started to make small inroads into Africa as early as 1420 but the rulers then decided to turn inward soon after, I guess to them, it is unfinished business of the Celestial Kingdom.

ChiComs on the march ... ping.

“The net result of Chinese colonization of Africa might just resemble the British colonization of North America (which didn’t work out well for the Native Americans)”

It might net out more like the Spanish colonization of South America.

Outside of the Caribbean, the Indians survived in Spanish America in such large numbers that most Mexicans, for example, are mestizo.

When was the last time you saw an Native American Indian from, say, Virginia?

On the Eastern Seaboard, almost all traces of the original native Indian populations were wiped out long out.

Leaving Africa to its own devices has been a failure all around. Being taken over by China will be just the last item in a long list of failures.

Amen. As long as tribalism rules, neither the Africans nor the Chinese nor anyone else will get anywhere.

Indians are another group that end up owning stores and being the backbone of the middle class. That lasts until the latest El Supremo confiscates all the goods and runs them out of the country like Idi Amin did to them in Uganda in the '70s.

If the Chinese get screwed like this they might come in and kick butt with impunity, for the world only complains when whites are involved. However, the end result will be the same - the Chinese say "To Hell with it" and go home while the locals relapse back to their previous poverty and yell for Western aid.

The National Geographic is still displaying their Admiral Zheng He and the Ming Fleet exhibit at Explorer’s Hall in D.C..

There is no comparison. Zheng He and his officers were a tower of benevolence. He wanted only to open up trade routes and expand geographic knowledge. He pointedly avoided establishing colonies and, while he did get involved militarily in a few places, it was only to prop up local rulers who had signed treaties with China.

I can see this current wave getting involved militarily if local rulers even think of trying to kick them out and nationalize what they’ve built. Whether or not there is a strategic plan to export their surplus young men remains to be seen.

On the Eastern Seaboard, almost all traces of the original native Indian populations were wiped out long out.

Not so. We may not live in lodges, run casinos, or be so visible. But there are tribal organizations right here in Pennsylvania and western New York. There are a fair number of our cousins still on Martha's Vineyard within a short drive of the Kennedy Compound. North Carolina, from where many of my ancestors hail, have more Cherokee than any other state except Oklahoma.

The stereotypical image of the Native American as a drunken sot, sitting around on a reservation and waiting for his next welfare check is more the exception than the rule.

Some of us are disowned by the political elite who pass out casino licenses because we've adapted so well to white man's ways that we've even married into white man's culture. But we're everywhere, probably even in your bloodline if you had an ancestor here before about 1750.

The only people who would stand in the way of the Chinese are the Afrikaners in South Africa. I don’t think they’ll allow the Chi-Coms to steal their factories and mines.

"More than a thousand miles of new Chinese railroads are crisscrossing the continent.."

Wow. What an accomplishment. More than 1000 miles of railroad, able to criss-cross a contintent (that's thousands of miles wide). Nevermind any "new math," please pass me an abacus...

Great points. I think at most they offer economic growth. As bad as things are in Africa, that is worth something. Hard to expect Chinese to offer values. Perhaps organization and hardwork. We shall see.

More than a thousand miles of new Chinese railroads are crisscrossing the continent

Africa is huge. 1000 miles of road wouldn't go far.

Whether or not there is a strategic plan to export their surplus young men remains to be seen.

Excellent observation.

By the way, the more recent history of the Chinese in Africa includes building the East Africa Highway in the 1960s (which later beame a major conduit for HIV transmission). Crews of Chinese men built it: it would be interesting to find out if they left any genetic imprint in the population along that route.

The President is sending Billions of dollars to Africa.

BOOKMARK

>>Its costing us 10 billion a month to stay in Iraq.

That’s because the U.S. has a moral conscience which prevents it from leveling the urban areas utilized by the insurgency to make mischief on the economic assets we’re there to secure.

China is not so encumbered.

Ping!

Thanks for the ping, Tigers Eye.

“The only people who would stand in the way of the Chinese are the Afrikaners in South Africa”.
You’re kidding, right? They have long since lost power and are just deperately trying to survive in the “New” South Africa.

Read the history of South Africa. Over 100 years ago during the Second Boer War, the British killed 1 out of 6 Afrikaners and imposed their imperialist rule on the entire country.

My point is that Afrikaners are down at this point but don't count them out. After an unjust system also known as Apartheid, South Africa is going through a period of adjustment to inexperienced black majority rule.

Anyway, the Afrikaners own a majority of economic interests in South Africa and I don't think they'll allow the Chinese to come in and exploit raw materials of the country.

I hope you’re right!