So what is the Manti Pagent? It seems to be a Mormon Passion Play of sorts, reliving the splendor of the founding of the Mormon faith. The below material is from this web site.

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     On eight evenings in June, a cast of over 500 depict with dance, music and drama, on a stage larger than a football field, some of the most compelling and dramatic scenes from ancient American history. Witness for yourself an epic struggle of good and evil and characters you will never forget: Captain Moroni, Ammon, King Lamoni, Mormon, Samuel the Lamanite and others.

As you sit under a canopy of stars --the beautiful Manti Temple rising before you -- you can look to the east and see the beauty of the hills much as it was when these ancient people lived and died. For the first time, the visit of the resurrected Christ to these ancient people will be portrayed in The Mormon Miracle Pageant. You will see Him appear to the people at the end of the terrible destruction that accompanied His crucifixion. You will see Him heal the sick and comfort their children. You will learn how the record of this sacred visit was written and preserved for our time.

You will see this ancient record delivered to Joseph Smith. As the events surrounding the translation of the records are portrayed, you will meet the people God selected to help Joseph with the translation and publication the Book of Mormon. You will follow the lives of a fictional couple, Robert and Mary Henshaw, as they search for religious truth. In a breathtaking finale, you will receive with Robert and Mary the profound knowledge that love and families are truly eternal in nature.

Imagine yourself seated at the base of the majestic Sanpete mountains, with a crisp canyon breeze tickling your cheeks and a ceiling of stars overhead as the saga of the Mormon Miracle Pageant unfolds before your eyes. During the past two years, major enhancements have been made. All the sets have been completely replaced. To match the new sets, every scene in the pageant has been newly staged and most costumes have been redesigned. We are also pleased to announce that the long awaited scene of the resurrected Christ's appearance to the people on the American continent will be included in the pageant this year. The Mormon Miracle Pageant waits to share with you and your family another testament of Christ.

Although food is not allowed on the temple grounds, fast foods of several kinds are available near the pageant area. For pageant information, call (888) 255-8860. The Sanpete County Travel Council, 345 West 100 North, Ephraim, UT 84627, (435)283-4321 or (800) 281-4346 has further information about the local area. Many families camp at local parks and campgrounds. We urge all pageant visitors to strictly observe speed limits and traffic laws. Please, treat the private property of local residents with respect.

This is an UNOFFICIAL SITE of the Mormon Miracle Pageant.   This site is maintained to provide local information for those wishing to visit the Sanpete County area during the pageant. This site is designed to provide information regarding lodging, dining, directions, events and other general information about Central Utah.   This site has no affiliation with the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, but is designed to aid those wishing to attend the Mormon Miracle Pageant.

Ping

I wonder whether "Aaron" is Aaron Shafovaloff (shah-FAH-vah-loff).

If so, he's an excellent young man, with a deep, deep care for the lost Mormons. I preached at a church in Tennessee, had the pleasure of talking with Aaron and hearing him present his mission.

From Aaron I learned the jaw-dropping truth that Mormons are fine with the idea that God the Father may have sinned; not only fine with it, but in some cases really love the thought. Chew on that one for awhile, if you have any temptation to think of Mormonism as pretty close to Biblical Christianity.

Anyway, if it was that Aaron, they should have credited him. One of his sites is Mormon Coffee, where you can find documentation of his conversations with Mormons about the sinning Father.

From the above website:

The Mormon Miracle Pageant has the largest attendance of any outdoor pageant in the United States, attracting an average of 100,000 visitors every year. The average nightly attendance hovers around 15,000. Since 1967, over 4.4 million visitors have come to see the annual production.

The American Bus Association recognizes the Mormon Miracle Pageant and Temple Square in Salt Lake City as the top two summer attractions for those touring by bus, during the summer months in Utah.

Today, the Mormon Miracle Pageant involves over two thousand people with eight performances over a two week period in June. The production includes approximately 800 cast members and 300 prop and technical crew members. Another 900 volunteers assist with traffic control, ushering, meals, emergency medical services, and maintenance.

WOW! Who knew?!?

...that Mormons are fine with the idea that God the Father may have sinned; not only fine with it, but in some cases really love the thought.

Just amazing.

Hey Roy, how are you with that idea?

Thanks for the post, gamecock.

If you build it, they will come....

from the website

Wanna go next year? I’ll split the gas with you!

Thanks for the post.
Simply amazing........(shaking head)

Wanna go next year? I’ll split the gas with you!

Sure! I'm always up for a good comedy!

Just to forewarn you, Aaron dialogued with one professor, who told him upfront that the idea was peachy, not knowing who he was. Then when he found out, he said he’d not have admitted it (my wording). So you may find you run up into the fabled Mormon duplicity. Like asking a RC if they pray to dead people.

“From Aaron I learned the jaw-dropping truth that Mormons are fine with the idea that God the Father may have sinned; not only fine with it, but in some cases really love the thought.”

I would love to hear from some FR Mormons (either fLDS or _LDS), what they think about this.

If I understand their “theology” correctly, it is consistent with what they “think” (as opposed to what they “feel”?).

“Like asking a RC if they pray to dead people.”

I’m a Catholic here and I’ll take your bait to simply respond that I’ve NEVER prayed to a dead person in my life. As I am sure you know, “pray” means to make a request or ask. I have requested the prayers of many fellow Christians on this earth as well as of the saints in heaven.

I have every reason to believe that the saints of heaven are much more alive in Christ than you or I. If you dispute this, than we have a very different understanding of the power of God’s saving grace.

Thanks for the QED.

Especially the pic with Mr. Jos. Smith in action:

BTTT

Yes it was Aaron Shafavaloff. I am a member of the same congregation as he and Bill McKeever.

Wheres the hat?
I saw the South Park episode and there was a hat.

With all due respect, my response is not a QED if you are referring to a “case in point.” You intimated that “duplicity” is well illustrated by Catholics who claim not to pray to the dead. I must point out that if you define those who live in God's heavenly glory as being “dead”, than you profess a very different religious definition of “life” and “death” than that promulgated by biblical and historical Christianity. Hardly a quod erat demonstrandum.

The American Bus Association recognizes the Mormon Miracle Pageant and Temple Square in Salt Lake City as the top two summer attractions for those touring by bus, during the summer months in Utah.

What's number three? Watching the prairie crack in the sun?

What are the dates?... Have Moho, Will Travel.

Apparently the Mormons in security had been watching the Christians who kept starting conversations in the street near the bathrooms. As the night wore on and some of the Christians tried to use the facilities, the security and police turned them away. So, we call this bladdergate. Anyway, the Mormons did not come off looking too good and on Saturday night there was no such restriction.

So revealing....somewhat like the attempts by mormons to censor any and everything that doesn't follow the official mormon scenario, "Free speech for mormons, but not for Christians"...where have we heard THIS before?

Got it: June 18th - 20th & 23rd - 27th, 2009
9:30PM in Manti, Utah

Wheres the hat?

Here it is...

Got it: June 18th - 20th & 23rd - 27th, 2009 9:30PM in Manti, Utah

I'll meet you there. (can I, can I please???)

If this works out, I may swing through her area and pick up foxxie so she can ‘be there’ too. Ping-a-ling-a-ling greyfoxx39

Would you? Oh, that would be SO lovely! {{{{HUGS}}}}

Be sure to park the MoHo close for potty purposes! ;)

I bet the Binger would bring us some of that great Thunderbird coffee!

I remember I once asked an LDS bishop why we (I was LDS at the time) didn't use the cross symbol at all if we were Christians. He said that if our brother was killed in a car accident we wouldn't remember him by wearing a little crumpled car on a necklace, and that the use of the cross as imagery was repulsive and sick. He said that all Christians had become abominations in the eyes of God, in part by celebrating Christs death, in part by wearing and using crosses.

....And that only Mormons were christians, others claiming to be christians were really pagans or satanists in disguise.

From Aaron I learned the jaw-dropping truth that Mormons are fine with the idea that God the Father may have sinned; not only fine with it, but in some cases really love the thought. Chew on that one for awhile, if you have any temptation to think of Mormonism as pretty close to Biblical Christianity.

Indeed. My mom's family is all Mormon. Since I'm a Christian (and a southern baptist to boot) it creates some tension from time to time. But my LDS family believes that God may have once sinned and they also believe that if they live a good enough life, they can become gods themselves. The belief is that God Himself was once but a man, like us, but through his living of a good life became god as we know him know. The LDS church teaches that a similar thing is possible for Mormons.

Of course, none of this is compatible with traditional Christianity, which why I'm not an LDS member any longer.

It's truly surprising how many people think Mormonism is just another Christian denomination when there are, in fact, significant theological differences between Mormonism and traditional Christianity.

Lets see...on FR?

I bet the Binger would bring us some of that great Thunderbird coffee!

Indeed I will! I hear all the French missionaries (Mittster & co.) just use the field for their potty. Coffee at night will require a touch of bourbon or brandy or some of that Bailey's stuff to make it work better.

Just come across I 40 and up Highway 89 from Flagstaff around Lake Powell and over here. We'll have dinner here that night and we'll plug in the MoHo and/or provide an early morning repast.

Come on down! Might have to stop in Panguitch for stocking things up at their liquor store. It's the only State of Utah liquor store that has a beer cooler. I think CC most likely had something to do with that.

.that Mormons are fine with the idea that God the Father may have sinned

Just amazing.

Hey Roy, how are you with that idea?

+++++++++++++++++++=
The IDEA is fine.

Heavenly Father love us and wants us to grow and become like He is. He does not need a choir to sit around all day to tell Him how good He is.

What I find hard to believe, as taught by CARM.org, is that God created the elect to be saved, and the rest of us have been created so we can have everlasting pain and torment.

God also has you elect torment those of us who are not elect, so we suffer while in this life.

They teach that God so loved the world that He gave his only begotten Son that who so ever believe on Jesus will go to the good place. God also choose who will believe (the elect). They go to the good place and the rest will go to the bad place, or are snuffed out.

CARM teaches of a God that creates some men to suffer for His pleasure.

You posted some of CARM’s teachings.

Because it is an annual event, a lot of Christians go there to witness.

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Anyone else notice that there are many posts here at FR that say the “Mormons” should stay away from other church's events because it is impolite to witness at these events.

pong

This sounding so good, I may have to make a test drive out that way before the snows come in, 'just to be sure I can find everything'. :^)

Anyone else notice that there are many posts here at FR that say the “Mormons” should stay away from other church's events because it is impolite to witness at these events.

No.

Can you perhaps find a link to just one?

The IDEA is fine.

Let no one say when he is tempted, "I am being tempted by God"; for God cannot be tempted by evil, and He Himself does not tempt anyone. (James 1:13)

What I find hard to believe, as taught by CARM.org, is that God created the elect to be saved, and the rest of us have been created so we can have everlasting pain and torment.

I know that you know how to post a link. Do so in this case - Show us where at CARM salvation is not offered by Jesus to all.

It is a straw man, a false representation of the facts.

Joe!!

Say it isn't so!!

Just to forewarn you, Aaron dialogued with one professor, who told him upfront that the idea was peachy, not knowing who he was. Then when he found out, he said he’d not have admitted it (my wording). So you may find you run up into the fabled Mormon duplicity. Like asking a RC if they pray to dead people.

Wear your hidden camera and sensitive microphone.

Wear your hidden camera and sensitive microphone.

And you may (likely) capture a Jesse Jackson moment.

If you dispute this, than we have a very different understanding of the power of God’s saving grace.

The Book says the saints are SLEEPING in their graves; awaiting the RESURRECTION.

I must point out that if you define those who live in God's heavenly glory as being “dead”, than you profess a very different religious definition of “life” and “death” than that promulgated by biblical and historical Christianity.

Okay...

---

NIV Philippians 4:3
   Yes, and I ask you, loyal yokefellow, help these women who have contended at my side in the cause of the gospel, along with Clement and the rest of my fellow workers, whose names are in the book of life.

 

NIV Revelation 3:5
   He who overcomes will, like them, be dressed in white. I will never blot out his name from the book of life, but will acknowledge his name before my Father and his angels.

 

NIV Revelation 13:8-9
 8.  All inhabitants of the earth will worship the beast--all whose names have not been written in the book of life belonging to the Lamb that was slain from the creation of the world.
 9.  He who has an ear, let him hear.

 

NIV Revelation 17:8
   The beast, which you saw, once was, now is not, and will come up out of the Abyss and go to his destruction. The inhabitants of the earth whose names have not been written in the book of life from the creation of the world will be astonished when they see the beast, because he once was, now is not, and yet will come.

Revelation 20

 

 1.  And I saw an angel coming down out of heaven, having the key to the Abyss and holding in his hand a great chain.
 2.  He seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the devil, or Satan, and bound him for a thousand years.
 3.  He threw him into the Abyss, and locked and sealed it over him, to keep him from deceiving the nations anymore until the thousand years were ended. After that, he must be set free for a short time.
 4.  I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony for Jesus and because of the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or his image and had not received his mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
 5.  (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection.
 6.  Blessed and holy are those who have part in the first resurrection. The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with him for a thousand years.
 7.  When the thousand years are over, Satan will be released from his prison
 8.  and will go out to deceive the nations in the four corners of the earth--Gog and Magog--to gather them for battle. In number they are like the sand on the seashore.
 9.  They marched across the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of God's people, the city he loves. But fire came down from heaven and devoured them.
 10.  And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
 11.  Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. Earth and sky fled from his presence, and there was no place for them.
 12.  And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books.
 13.  The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what he had done.
 14.  Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death.
 15.  If anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.

He does not need a choir to sit around all day to tell Him how good He is.

Isaiah 6
1. In the year that King Uzziah died, I saw the Lord seated on a throne, high and exalted, and the train of his robe filled the temple.
2. Above him were seraphs, each with six wings: With two wings they covered their faces, with two they covered their feet, and with two they were flying.
3. And they were calling to one another: "Holy, holy, holy is the LORD Almighty; the whole earth is full of his glory."
4. At the sound of their voices the doorposts and thresholds shook and the temple was filled with smoke.

Anyone else notice that there are many posts here at FR that say the “Mormons” should stay away from other church's events because it is impolite to witness at these events.

I must have missed them.

Please point me to one.

'To be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord', so any time spent 'asleep' will pass unnoticed by the sleeper! As it is taught in I Thess 4, 'For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:'

Roy can’t produce such a line,

HOWEVER I can produce at least three posts right now, from within the last 48 hours, where Roy plays fast and loose with other people’s words....

ping to 46

Revelation 4:9-11 He does not need a choir to sit around all day to tell Him how good He is.

Revelation 4:9-11 9 And when the living creatures give glory and honor and thanks to Him who sits on the throne, to Him who lives forever and ever, 10 the twenty-four elders will fall down before Him who sits on the throne, and will worship Him who lives forever and ever, and will cast their crowns before the throne, saying, 11 “Worthy are You, our Lord and our God, to receive glory and honor and power; for You created all things, and because of Your will they existed, and were created.”

Perhaps this was one of the verses that wasn't translated correctly, huh fred/< /sarcasm>

Nowhere in Scripture are we told to pray to anyone else but the Triune God.

We are encouraged to pray for our brothers and sisters in Christ. But the only recipient of our prayers is God alone.

"Not unto us, O LORD, not unto us, but unto thy name give glory, for thy mercy, and for thy truth's sake.

Wherefore should the heathen say, Where is now their God?

But our God is in the heavens: he hath done whatsoever he hath pleased.

Their idols are silver and gold, the work of men's hands.

They have mouths, but they speak not: eyes have they, but they see not:

They have ears, but they hear not: noses have they, but they smell not:

They have hands, but they handle not: feet have they, but they walk not: neither speak they through their throat.

They that make them are like unto them; so is every one that trusteth in them." -- Psalm 115:1-8

I know that you know how to post a link. Do so in this case - Show us where at CARM salvation is not offered by Jesus to all.

++++++++++++++++

It would do you more good to find it yourself, but here goes.

Reformed theology teaches that God elects, from all eternity, those who will be saved and that this election cannot fail; those who are elected to salvation will be saved and only those who wanted to be saved are elected to be saved. Likewise, it is not possible for the elect to lose their salvation since the cross has made it secure.

http://www.carm.org/uni/elect.htm

All that I am and all I need is found in the work of Christ. Even my ability to believe is God's work (John 6:28-29). My believing has been granted to me by God (Phil. 1:29). And, I believe because I was appointed to eternal life (Acts 13:48). Should I then stand before God and man and say that I am keeping my position with God by my own faithfulness? This is something I can never claim.

That is why I ask people who believe they can lose their salvation and are seeking to maintain it by being faithful, if they take credit for their believing. If they say yes, they are boasting. If they say no, then I ask them what makes him think that if God who granted that they believe (Phil. 1:29), appointed them to eternal life (Acts 13:48), chose them before the foundation of the world for salvation (Eph. 1:4-5; 2 Thess. 2:13), predestined them (Rom. 8:29-30), and said he will lose none (John 6:39), we'll let you them slip through his fingers when he said it was his will that those who believe would not be lost and would be raised on the last day (John 6:37-40)?
http://www.carm.org/misc/maintain_salvation.htm