I did some editing on this by inserting paragraph breaks to try to make it more readable. I don't believe it changed anything but to see the original just click the link.

Might be of interest to you.

Hmm. Interesting, but as a practicing and faithful adherent to the religion nicknamed “Mormon” (The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints), I have to disagree. I have met FAR more members who fully accept the Church despite a few perceived blemishes on its history, not because they are brainwashed, gullible, or just looking for comfort in a friendly society. They accept it because they have faith that God will reveal or has already revealed the reasons for things that appear suspicious or outright crazy to those outside of the Church.

Please don’t forget that your same arguments, and many like them, were used against Christians in the early Church. Was not Jesus accused of being a wine bibber, of improperly associating with harlots, and of casting out devils by Beelzebub by the Pharisees of His day? Was he not crucified for making the “outlandish” claim to be the King of the Jews, the very Messiah?

Early Christianity only looks acceptable and logical to us latecomers because we aren’t being burned out of our homes or impaled on stakes and lit on fire as decorations for the Roman Emporer’s banquet.

No other church has so short a history that it can be examined so closely by science. Otherwise we would find that they are all created on the backs of con-artist. I am willing to bet every religion was founded by a fraud. So who cares. Does religion bring us together? Does it bond a nation, a town, a family? If so then let it be.

*cough* Jehovah's *cough* Witnesses *cough*
*cough* Scientology *cough*

I am willing to bet every religion was founded by a fraud.
***I’m not.

1 Corinthians 15:14

---

International Standard Version (©2008)
and if the Messiah has not been raised, then our message means nothing and your faith means nothing.
New American Standard Bible (©1995)
and if Christ has not been raised, then our preaching is vain, your faith also is vain.

GOD’S WORD® Translation (©1995)
If Christ hasn’t come back to life, our message has no meaning and your faith also has no meaning.

King James Bible
And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain.

American King James Version
And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain.

American Standard Version
and if Christ hath not been raised, then is our preaching vain, your faith also is vain.

Bible in Basic English
And if Christ did not come again from the dead, then our good news and your faith in it are of no effect.

Douay-Rheims Bible
And if Christ be not risen again, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain.

Darby Bible Translation
but if Christ is not raised, then, indeed, vain also is our preaching, and vain also your faith.

English Revised Version
and if Christ hath not been raised, then is our preaching vain, your faith also is vain.

Webster’s Bible Translation
And if Christ is not raised, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain.

Weymouth New Testament
And if Christ has not risen, it follows that what we preach is a delusion, and that your faith also is a delusion.

World English Bible
If Christ has not been raised, then our preaching is in vain, and your faith also is in vain.

Young’s Literal Translation
and if Christ hath not risen, then void is our preaching, and void also your faith,

1 Thessalonians 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who have fallen asleep in Jesus. (NASB ©1995)
Treasury of Scripture Knowledge

And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain.

Echols sounds like Tony Soprano's wife in the last throes of abject moral surrender. ‘Sure what I believe is based on fraud but so is everyone beliefs. Who cares?’

ctr

The average Mormon sitting in a pew does not care how or why their religion works

Somehow I doubt the author knows or has spoken to very many "average Mormons".

South Park, a fictional, satirical cartoon, depicted a Mormon named “Gary”

+++

would this be his “average Mormon”?

many have argued that the primary "glue" of Mormonism is the heritage, culture, and family ties

Ah, the ever-popular Katy Couric "many"! Always a crowd-pleaser! ;-)

Is "atheoligical" a word? I thought it might be a typo on your part, but, no, that's what the source has . . .

In my church yesterday, I sat next to Koreans, Chinese, Venezuelans, Peruvians, African-Americans, and whites of European descent.

The "glue" that unites that diverse crowd is the Body of Christ, and the faith set in knowing He died for our sins.

When one truly and honestly explores the LDS faith, it is not only found wanting, it is almost laughable.

Golden Plates, "Reformed" Egyptian, Planet Kolob, Spirit Wives, Magic Peepstones, and Becoming Your Own god are just the tip of tragedy.

The author is incorrect that all religions are based on fraud. He is correct in his assessment that Mormons have a lot to lose if their religion is based on a huckster who literally created the 3-dollar bill and slept with in excess of 30 women (several of those women being wives to other men of his own flock).

It would take courage to break away from family, friends, and business associates who are your fellow LDS.

Those who have done so have incredible stories to tell.

But, many of those who have exhibited the courage and wisdom to do just that have done it for Christ.

In fact, everyone who has left his homes, brothers, sisters, father, mother, children, or fields because of my name will receive a hundred times as much and will inherit eternal life.

Matthew 19:29

Atheological

A`the*o*log”ic*al\, a. Opposed to theology; atheistic.

Quoting South Park always makes an argument more credible, of course... /sarc

They are not concerned with the real character of Joseph Smith or how the LDS scriptures coincide with biblical teachings.

I love Joseph Smith. He was truly a Prophet of God, chosen to restore to the earth the Gospel of Jesus Christ. He saw God the Father and His son, Jesus Christ. His testimony was sealed with his blood at the hands of assassins. I can only hope that my own character measures up in any way to his.

The Old Testament and the New Testament (KJV) are the foremost LDS scriptures. Other LDS scriptures support the teachings of the Bible. I believe the Holy Bible to be true as well as The Book of Mormon and other LDS scriptures to be true and the word of God.

This rings true of most LDS in my experiences in LDS country.

Many Bishops don’t even know many things about historic LDS facts.

If you believe the Holy Bible is true (not just JS version of the Bible), how can you believe the Book of Mormon is true? I borrowed a Book of Mormon from a friend and found alot of contradictions in it versus the Bible. THE Bible warns about adding to or taking away from The Bible. How do you reconcile that? That we are gods? There is only one true God. I’ll stop now before someone starts calling me names again.

I’ll stop now before someone starts calling me names again.

Consider it an honor. "Bigot", "hater", I've heard it all. It happens when you tell the truth.

Your title has "atheoLIgical" -- which is what I asked about! ;=)

I copied and pasted the title and didn’t even notice the misprint and also missed your point in your reply. When I went to the definition, I did not copy and paste but spelled it correctly all on my own. I attribute it to old, tired eyes, not enough caffine yet, etc.

My apologies for incorrectly thinking that you didn’t know what Atheological meant.

“Hose” of a different color ping ;)

“If a person does not care about their theology, they miss the importance of rooting their entire life in the true knowledge of God and a coherent, rational, theological worldview.” Um, there is a fundamental difference in 1) working your way to worthiness for Heaven and 2) God’s Grace in Christ Jesus imputed to you because of your faithing in His worthiness and God imputing that worthiness to you. Your post affirms the very thing the article is addressing ... your willingness to remain blind to the heresies of Mormonism is what keeps that religion alive in ignorance. Mormonism is not Christianity, but your religion has you blindly believing it is because you are not taught what real Grace is so you can be manipulated with ‘after all that you can do’. Satan doesn’t much care how you behave so long as you do not opt for God’s Grace in Christ Jesus as THE means of Salvation. How you behave and the esteem you vest in family, law, the nation is of little concern to Satan so long as you are not looking at Jesus for deliverance, even if you’re imagining Him to be your elder brother. Any means to denigrate Him from God into a mere better than you member of the family is all Satan seeks for he knows what that does to your eternal destiny as insult to God’s plan.

SO let me get this straight, we have a “Religion” who has it's own writers saying who cares if there is a God or if all of our dogma is based on truth or not, just go be happy? Hell be an atheist, and you can be LDS if you are happy.

Damn, just damn...

Oh Spiff...

This entire time I didn't know, I just didn't know...

LOL! I figured it was something like that — just couldn’t resist a bit of teasing! :)

I can only hope that my own character measures up in any way to his.
___________________________________

If you plan to live an unrighteous life, practice the occult, be a conman-money digger, pretend you saw Jesus in order to make some money, defraud your own followers in a bank scam, print worthless $3 bills, persecute and murder Christians, deny your followers their civil rights under the 1st Amendment, claim you are bigger than Jesus, make yourself a unauthorized general of a vigilante militia, make ytourself a king of America, prophecy that you will be the president of the United states in 1844, and then die 6 months before the election, sell booze from your own bar, sleep with other mens wives, (adultery) have multiple one night stands, (adultery) cheat repeatedly on your faithful legal wife and threaten her with destruction if she objects, claim that people live on the moon, claim that Christians Churches are of the devil, start your own religion and claim you want to be like Mohammad and make people join your religion at the point of a sword, and have a shoot out and kill 2 other guys, you just might...

Wish I had used the same discretion ... I’m tired of playing straightman to the lies and heresies of mormonism spewed across FR.

THE Bible warns about adding to or taking away from The Bible.

Actually THE Bible says nothing of the sort. There was no bible when John wrote the book of Revelation. John was speaking about his specific writings.

The first collection of scripture wasn't put together until 325 AD. And it's not complete. It's only the writings they elected to include. This is why you find references to other scripture with in the writings of the bible but they are no where to be found. 1 Cor is actually Paul's 2nd letter to Corith. There were three...we only have two of them.

I borrowed a Book of Mormon from a friend and found alot of contradictions in it versus the Bible.

So you actually read the Book of Mormon? Or did your preacher tell you there were contradiction? Or did you find some blog on the internet that said "look here!"

Let me ask you a question, if you don't mind. How can you reconcile modern "Christianity" after almost 2000 years after the resurrection of Christ not able to add one new piece of information about the kingdom of God? That's a big red flag to me.

The bible was put together from writings created in all different ages in the area around Palestine.... What about God's dealings with the rest of the world?

Modern religionist have no clue. They've actually lost knowledge about God...not gained it. Which to me means, they're not of Him...

Are you aware that Joe Smith added to the Revelation? Have you ever read the bilge mormons claim was the 'Joseph Smith Translation' of the King James Bible into King James English, even the tens of thousands of words Smith added throughout, including the Revelation?

Welcome to FR, n00bie.

A few points:

First, as far as God and the rest of the world, he left that as our task:

Mark 16:15-16 (King James Version)
15And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
16He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

As far as why there has been nothing "new" to date, two things, one, God works in his own time, not yours or mine and he is working among us now, though not through false prophets or those who seek to change his nature or his word, nor change the path of salvation or add to it, that is work left to the evil one, who has much success in that endeavor.

Also there is this: John 19:28-31 (King James Version)
28After this, Jesus knowing that all things were now accomplished, that the scripture might be fulfilled, saith, I thirst.
29Now there was set a vessel full of vinegar: and they filled a spunge with vinegar, and put it upon hyssop, and put it to his mouth.
30When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost

Jesus was finished, the scriptures fulfilled, all that remain were stories to build on what he taught and the examples of his apostles to set in motion the formation of his church.

When the time comes God and Christ will reveal themselves again as promised, and the book shall be reopened, the legacy and historic linage carried foreword as it always has been, in very linear and uniform fashion, with no harsh turns to the improbable...

Oh, and as far as "Not adding or taking away from the Bible" no being discussed, again, nice try but I suggest a few verses for you, and read then from a proper bible, not one corrected by your fellows:

Deuteronomy 4:2
Deuteronomy 12:32
Proverbs 30:5-6
Revelation 22:18-19
Galatians 1:6-12

"The first collection of scripture wasn't put together until 325 AD. And it's not complete." With that typical mormonesque mischaracterization you have IDed yourself as a mormonism apologist. Of course you are aware that the earliest Church fatehrs referred to nearly every one of Paul's letters in thier writings dated to 100AD+. It is amusing that Mormons cannot build up their cult except by trying to denigrate Christianity and the Bible. Gotta make those holes into which to pour the heresies of mormonism don'tchaknow!

I suspect you're not a n00bie, just a stealth retread with more than one 'history' at FR.

...many have argued that the primary "glue" of Mormonism is the heritage, culture, and family ties, not the doctrine and theology...

I'd agree with that.

The first collection of scripture wasn't put together until 325 AD.

Peter refers to the writings of Paul as being scripture, that is in the early to mid first century. The heritic Marcion put a list together as early as 85AD. Ignatius, bishop of Antioch, refers to 'The Gospel' as an authoritative writing in 115 AD. The corpus Paulinum, or collection of Paul's writings, was brought together about the same time as the collecting of the fourfold Gospel, around 100 - 115 AD. Other formal lists include:

The Muratorian Fragment (c. 170).
Melito (c. 170).
Origen (c. 240).

Finally, regarding your claim that the first collection wasn't put together, FF Bruce makes it plain that _

One thing must be emphatically stated. The New Testament books did not become authoritative for the Church because they were formally included in a canonical list; on the contrary, the Church included them in her canon because she already regarded them as divinely inspired, recognising their innate worth and general apostolic authority, direct or indirect. The first ecclesiastical councils to classify the canonical books were both held in North Africa — at Hippo Regius in 393 and at Carthage in 397 — but what these councils did was not to impose something new upon the Christian communities but to codify what was already the general practice of those communities.

The bible was put together from writings created in all different ages in the area around Palestine.... What about God's dealings with the rest of the world?

1. Because the Jewish nation were the ones chosen to be the witness to the world
2. Christianity began there and spread outward.
3. The events listed in the bom never occured and its history has been disproven by DNA studies, archaeology, linguistic studies and anthropology.

<

I’m denser than usual today. What is that in number 24?

A ‘yellow submarine’ ... not to be confused with ‘yellow’ as in cowardly.

The average Mormon sitting in a pew does not care how or why their religion works, they only care that it works for them. There you go again!

Trying to tell unknowning folks WHAT we believe!

--MormonDude(I fully trust the KJV Bible - as long as it's translated correctly.)

The average Mormon sitting in a pew does not care how or why their religion works, they only care that it works for them. Did you get a witness of the Spirit?

--MormonDude(Warm and fuzzy - that's MY standard!)

Those who have done so have incredible stories to tell.

They are ALL liars and BIGOTS!!!

(And, probably hiding GREAT sins!!

--MormonDude(I'm glad that I don't do those things!)

I believe the Holy Bible to be true as well as The Book of Mormon and other LDS scriptures to be true and the word of God.

WHICH one??

I can only hope that my own character measures up in any way to his.

It's gettin' close!!

The ‘LI’ works better for me....

Details, Details...

So you actually read the Book of Mormon? Or did your preacher tell you there were contradiction?

It appears that JS and his followers did NOT READ the Bible or the Book of MORMON!!

With that typical mormonesque mischaracterization you have IDed yourself as a mormonism apologist.
__________________________________________________

Stourme, the Trinity means One God...

Three persons...

Joseph Smith never saw two personages...

A ‘yellow submarine’ ... not to be confused with ‘yellow’ as in cowardly.

Nor to be confused with the secret codes the submarines represent.

Details, Details...

Particle Physics to Pygmies...

But we are called to try...

John 1:1 (King James Version)
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

John 1:14 (King James Version)
And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

So endeth the lesson for today...

DUH ????

Ya know, I got to wonder, if Jesus and or God were going to go spread the word around on their own, then why did they instruct us to “Go ye into all the world”

We could have saved a lot of travel expense...