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Mountain Meadows massacre analysis ends with an accusation
Salt Lake Tribune ^ | June, 2003 | Martin Naparsteck

Posted on 07/12/2003 6:30:07 PM PDT by Torie

Mountain Meadows massacre analysis ends with an accusation

Sally Denton By Martin Naparsteck The Salt Lake Tribune

American Massacre By Sally Denton Knopf, $26.95

Brigham Young, as portrayed in Sally Denton's American Massacre, is a murderer and liar and commits treason. Her case is more strongly stated than in the two best previous books on the same subject, Juanita Brooks' 1950 Mountain Meadows Massacre and Will Bagley's 2002 Blood of the Prophets.

For those who view Young as a great man who did little or no wrong, her tone will be blasphemous; for those who view him as a self-centered dictator or worse, her argument will seem highly credible.

When the 1857 massacre occurred at Mountain Meadows in southwestern Utah -- the cold-blooded murder of at least 120 men, women and children on a wagon train headed from Arkansas to California -- LDS Church officials claimed Paiute Indians were responsible. Now, almost a century and a half after the event, nearly all reputable historians believe the murderers were white Mormons. Up to 50 Mormons took part in the murders, but only John D. Lee was punished; he was executed at the meadows 20 years later. Although he was clearly guilty, history also judged Lee to be a sacrificial lamb whose death by firing squad ended two decades of investigation into just how high in the church culpability reached.

There is disagreement among historians about exactly how many people were killed, how many Mormons took part in the murders, how much loot was taken, how many small children survived. But one overarching question dominates historical inquiries into the massacre: Did Brigham Young order the killings?

Gordon B. Hinckley, current president of the church, speaking at 1999 ceremonies marking the placement of a monument that for the first time acknowledged Mormons were responsible, said: "That which we have done here must never be construed as an acknowledgment on the part of the church of any complicity in the occurrences of that fateful day."

Brooks, a devout member of the church, showed great courage in publishing her book at a time when she risked excommunication and social ostracism. But she never seriously addressed the question of Young's involvement. She merely asked the question and, in essence, answered that there wasn't enough evidence on either side to answer it. Bagley (who writes a history column for The Salt Lake Tribune) used numerous sources not available to Brooks and concluded, essentially, that nothing of significance could occur in Utah in 1857 without Young's knowledge and approval. He stopped about a quarter-inch short of saying Young ordered the killings.

Denton comes even closer to saying Young knew in advance and probably ordered the killings. She gets as close to making that charge as a serious scholar can (and this book, regardless of whether you agree with the author's conclusions, is indeed serious scholarship) without a signed confession.

She repeatedly calls Young a dictator, depicts him as mean-spirited and claims he lied when he denied that Mormons perpetrated the killings.

The massacre occurred after President James Buchanan ordered the U.S. Army to remove Young from office. Young had been appointed governor of Utah Territory by President Millard Fillmore and ran Utah more as a theocracy than as a territory of the United States. Buchanan intended to establish U.S. authority over Utah. Young responded by putting Utah under martial law, ordering the destruction of army supplies and preparing to go to war with the United States. Under any reasonable definition of the term, he was guilty of treason.

Buchanan avoided a shooting war between Utah and the United States partly by promising Young and other Mormon leaders a pardon from charges of treason. The war was averted, but the massacre had taken place.

Brooks wrote near the end of her book, "While Brigham Young . . . did not specifically order the massacre, [he] did preach sermons and set up social conditions which made it possible."

Bagley wrote, "As long as modern [church leaders] deny that the LDS church had 'any complicity in the occurrences of that fateful day,' they can never come to terms with the truth."

Denton writes, "Within the context of the era and the history of Brigham Young's complete authoritarian control over his domain and his followers, it is inconceivable that a crime of this magnitude could have occurred without direct orders from him."

There is a progression worthy of note, from Brooks' courage in defying her church to the thorough and convincing scholarship of Bagley to the daring accusation of Denton. It is like three trial lawyers working together: Brooks with the opening argument, Bagley presenting endless details to the jury and Denton with the summation.

In Lee's first trial, the jury was hung because a majority of the jurors were Mormon and perhaps acting on orders from church leaders. In the second trial, church leaders, seeking to end the country's insistence that someone be punished, may have instructed the jurors to find him guilty.

The jury of readers of history must now decide whom they take orders from: a church leadership embarrassed by its past or their own consciences.

----- Martin Naparsteck reviews books from and about the West for The Salt Lake Tribune.


TOPICS: History; Other Christian
KEYWORDS: lds; mormon; mountainmeadows
That damned spot will not be expunged until it is honestly confronted, whether organized religion it might be with dirty linen, and most religions have such. A mark of self confidence is the willing to be totally honest and transparent. JMO.
1 posted on 07/12/2003 6:30:07 PM PDT by Torie
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To: Torie
whether = whatever
2 posted on 07/12/2003 6:30:42 PM PDT by Torie
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To: All
A horse walks into a bar. The bartender comes up and says "Hey pal, what will it be?"

The horse orders a beer.

A few minutes later, John Kerry walks in and sits at the bar. The bartender walks up and says "Hey pal, cheer up. Why the long face?"

I'll stop if you guys will donate and get us over our fundraising goal

3 posted on 07/12/2003 6:32:27 PM PDT by Support Free Republic (Your support keeps Free Republic going strong!)
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To: Support Free Republic
You are omnipresent. LOL.
4 posted on 07/12/2003 6:34:31 PM PDT by Torie
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Comment #5 Removed by Moderator

Comment #6 Removed by Moderator

To: drstevej; CARepubGal; RnMomof7; CCWoody; Wrigley; ksen; snerkel; Calvinist_Dark_Lord
Bump to the usual suspects
7 posted on 07/12/2003 9:55:20 PM PDT by Alex Murphy (Athanasius contra mundum!)
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To: fishtank; computerjunkie; P-Marlowe; Delphinium
PING
8 posted on 07/12/2003 10:03:37 PM PDT by CARepubGal
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To: Torie
A mark of self confidence is the willing to be totally honest and transparent.JMO.

When men leave, or pervert the truths of the Bible and cause others to follow them into a man made religion, or movement, many other perversions follow.

How could the Mormon church possibly be completely honest and open? The doctrine is based on lies from the very beginning.
9 posted on 07/13/2003 8:56:55 AM PDT by Delphinium
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To: Torie
I was recently reading the book DOWN THE GREAT UNKNOWN: JOHN WESLEY POWELL'S 1869 JOURNEY OF DISCOVERY & TRAGEDY by Edward Dolnick (Perennial Books), 2001. Powell, of course, was the one-armed Civil War vet who became the first known white man/white party to venture down the Green/Colorado River thru the Grand Canyon.

Shortly before finishing the trip, three of his party ventured out on foot into Utah Territory...never to be heard from again other than the Mormon leaders trying to pin the deaths of the three men on Indians.

On pp. 283-285, Dolnick cites an amateur historian & former dean of the college of science @ So. Utah Univ. (Wesley Larsen) re: a letter Larsen found in 1980 in a trunk belonging to the John Steele family.

Steele was a judge and a militia officer & father of the first white child born in Utah territory. The letter was written to Steele from William Leany. Both were devout Mormons.

Book mentions Leany had run afoul of the Mormon church by giving an emigrant a meal & roof & veggies.

Book excerpt: "Leany's fellow Mormons charged him with giving 'aid and comfort to the enemy.' To teach him a lesson, someone clubbed him over the head, fracturing his skull and leaving him for dead. Leany survived. By 1883, he and Steele were old men. Steele evidently suggested to his good friend Leany that the time had come for them both to repent of their sins. Leany wanted no part of it. The church had blood on its hands, but he had nothing to repent. Like an Old Testament preacher, Leany thundered that 'thieving whoredom murder & Suicide & like abominations' reigned in the land. Then came the sentence that, a century later, electrified Wes Larsen: 'You are far from ignorant of those deeds of blood from the day the picket fence was broken on my head to the day those three were murdered in our ward & the murderer killed to stop the shedding of more blood.'...Larsen...embarked on a frenzied round of detective work. The reference to 'our ward,' a local Mormon district run by a bishop, was the first clue. Leany and Steele had lived in the same ward only once through the years, in 1869. And in that same fateful year, Larsen found, only one trio of men...had been reported missing or killed in southern Utah.

"Further, Larsen learned, only weeks before the Powell expedition reached Separation Rapid, Brigham Young had traveled throughout the region warning the faithful that the long-threatened invasion of Utah by Gentiles was imminent. When 'war' came, Young warned his listeners, blood would rise 'to their knees and even to their waist and to their horses' bridle bits.' The Mormon leader ordered sentries posted at all the passes leading into southern Utah. Then, at the worst possible moment, three white strangers wandered into no-man's-land spouting a cock-and-bull story about their trip down a river that everyone knew was impassable. The three men were dragged off and executed as spies, Larsen speculates, and the news of the unsanctioned executions triumphantly telegraphed to Salt Lake City...

"In Larsen's scenario, the next step was an exact replay of the Mormon response to the 120 killings at Mountain Meadows. First came cover-up...then a vow of scilence on the part of those who knew the truth, and finally a finger of blame pinning the crime on the nearest Indians."

10 posted on 07/13/2003 6:54:17 PM PDT by Colofornian
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To: Delphinium
well said.
11 posted on 07/13/2003 7:01:35 PM PDT by mountaineer
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To: Colofornian
Further, Larsen learned, only weeks before the Powell expedition reached Separation Rapid, Brigham Young had traveled throughout the region warning the faithful that the long-threatened invasion of Utah by Gentiles was imminent

Young said that in 1869? That was the year the Golden Spike was nailed on the transcontinental railroad. The Gentiles could just roll in by train, and did, rather than on foot through the desert. It all seems very odd.

12 posted on 07/13/2003 7:12:52 PM PDT by Torie
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To: Colofornian; All
Here is a rather interesting take on the Mormon Church authorities on this book, and a another book that is coming out next week about Mormon history, Banner of Heaven that has really created a stir, because the author is very well known and respected. You need to scroll down a bit, to get the Mormon stuff.
13 posted on 07/13/2003 7:17:07 PM PDT by Torie
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To: Torie
***That damned spot will not be expunged until it is honestly confronted****

Then that still leaves the "Morrisite Massacre" to be investigated.




14 posted on 07/13/2003 7:23:57 PM PDT by Ruy Dias de Bivar (When someone burns a cross on your lawn the best firehose is an AK-47.)
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To: Ruy Dias de Bivar
Then that still leaves the "Morrisite Massacre" to be investigated.

And many others.
15 posted on 07/13/2003 7:39:21 PM PDT by Delphinium
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To: Torie
I could post some defenses of the LDS church and Brigham Young, but why bother. All I get is the circular argument that Brigham Young was a despotic dictator and no one did anything in Utah without his knowledge, and therefore the Mountain Meadow Massacre occurred with his full knowledge because after all, he was a despotic dictator who knew everything that went on in Utah, and...so I'm not going to bother.
16 posted on 07/13/2003 8:24:38 PM PDT by Utah Girl
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To: Utah Girl
Have you read either the Brooks or the Bagley book? The Mormon historians now say they will come out with their own version in 2004 (it seems to be continually delayed). It should be interesting. For me, this has nothing to do about theology, and everything to do with institutional honesty and accountability. All of them should be held to a high standard, and face fair comment in the public square.
17 posted on 07/13/2003 8:32:10 PM PDT by Torie
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To: Torie
Brigham Young had traveled throughout the region warning the faithful that the long-threatened invasion of Utah by Gentiles was imminent Young said that in 1869? That was the year the Golden Spike was nailed on the transcontinental railroad. The Gentiles could just roll in by train, and did, rather than on foot through the desert. It all seems very odd.

What's the disconnect 'tween "the long-threatened invasion of Utah by Gentiles" and the transcontinental railroad as occurring all in 1869? It was exactly because of the transcontinental railroad that Brigham was all paranoid about the "invasion of Utah by Gentiles."

It makes perfect sense. Due to the railroad, Young makes the rounds among the Utah district wards, warning them about the invasion of the Gentiles. He gets them into a heightened sense of overreaction. Some Mormons overreact to the point of murder.

18 posted on 07/13/2003 8:44:35 PM PDT by Colofornian
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To: Colofornian; CARepubGal; P-Marlowe
The story I heard, but cannot find in my vast library on the history of Mormonism goes like this.

On 13 May 1857, Parley Pratt was murdered in Arkansas. He had married a woman who was still married to another man. I guess Parley was quite a ladies man. He took this married woman and child with him. Somehow he had to return for court in Arkansas for this crime. Whether he broke out, or was released, I don't remember, but a mob of men ran him down and killed him for this.

When the wagon train of people from Arkansas traveled through they met up with Mormons on the trail. Evidently atleast one of the men bragged that he had been a part of killing Parley P Pratt. This has been written in historic documents as atleast one reason for the Mountains Meadows Massecre.

I am not sure of this story but heard it from a reliable Mormon historian.I will call her later to find the source.

Another story is that some men on the wagon train bragged about being part of the death of Joseph Smith, and they, (the Mormons) had vowed (in a temple ceremony) to avenge the death of Joseph Smith. They vowed in this ceremony that if they ever met anyone responsible for the prophets death that they "would slice their throats from ear to ear, and rip their tongue out from the roots."
19 posted on 07/13/2003 9:37:18 PM PDT by Delphinium
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To: Torie
I've read parts of the Bagley book in the bookstore. Sorry, he uses the same argument that Brigham Young "created the climate" in which the massacre could take place, and "nothing happened in Utah that Brigham Young didn't know about." He has arrayed an impressive list of archives and research, but still uses circumstantial evidence to pin the crime on Brigham Young. And there is nothing better than to bring down the LDS church and its leaders, in Bagley's eyes. I haven't read Juanita Brooks' book, I'll see if my father has a copy or has read it (he taught LDS church history for many years.) I've also perused Sally Denton's book (uses the same arguments as Bagley.) I'm waiting for Richard Turley's book to come out next summer. If you want to read the LDS church's response to Krakauer's book, here is the URL
Church Response to Jon Krakauer's Under the Banner of Heaven
20 posted on 07/13/2003 9:39:06 PM PDT by Utah Girl
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To: Delphinium; P-Marlowe; Colofornian
The first story sounds right, Parley was hung for his adultery. The Fanchers had a hard time getting supplies from the Mormons and MMM was a horriffic act of terrorism, and was the terrorist act claiming the most lives on US soil pre OKC and 9/11.
21 posted on 07/13/2003 9:47:30 PM PDT by CARepubGal
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Comment #22 Removed by Moderator

Comment #23 Removed by Moderator

To: CARepubGal
Oops! Sorry for the triple post. :-)
24 posted on 07/13/2003 9:49:46 PM PDT by CARepubGal
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To: CARepubGal
I have "The Confessions of John Lee", but haven't read it yet. I think I will look for it tonight.
25 posted on 07/13/2003 10:04:37 PM PDT by Delphinium
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To: Delphinium
I read Mormonism Mama and Me that was written by a Lee Descendent. She is now with the Lord (she and her Mama were saved). Thelma "Granny" Geer was her name.
26 posted on 07/13/2003 10:06:56 PM PDT by CARepubGal
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To: CARepubGal
I have that too but my husband says its not totally accurate.

I am just reading "Wife No.19, The Story of a Life in Bondage" by Ann Eliza Young, Brigham Youngs Wife Written in 1875, and "Rocky Mountain Saints" by T.B.H. Stenhouse, written 1873. I read "Rocky Mountain Saints years ago, and believe it is a must for anyone honestly looking into the history of Mormonism. Fannie Stenhouse wrote "Tell it All", a book about Mormon plural marriage.

I bought these from the "Utah Lighthouse Ministry" site for a good price.
27 posted on 07/13/2003 10:21:36 PM PDT by Delphinium
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To: Delphinium
Thanks! Granny Geer was speaking from family legend and it was interesting and sort of entertaining. :-) I really like UTLM.
28 posted on 07/13/2003 10:29:08 PM PDT by CARepubGal
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To: CARepubGal
Ann Eliza Young writes alot about the Mountain Meadows Massacre in her book. She goes into much heart breaking detail of how women and children were killed. She tells how they auctioned off the belongings from the train in Cedar city. She says that both stories I wrote above were reasons for the massacre. She goes into the whole Parley P Pratt story. She tells how many of the people were from Missouri, and there was much bitterness over what the Mormons had suffered there.

She wrote that when this wagon train arrived in Utah the people were ordered not to sell them any much needed supplies. She said it was a horrible thing because the people including children were starving. Many of the Mormon people wanted to help but feared what Brigham Young would do to them. Some did it anyway because they could not stand to see the suffering.

Too much to write, but a very reliable account from someone who was married to Brigham Young at the time.
29 posted on 07/13/2003 11:13:19 PM PDT by Delphinium
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To: Delphinium
The Joshua Tree -- a realistic novel about what it was like to be a plural wife--is another book I would recommend. The author who wrote it was socially disenfranchised from the LDS church after writing it.
30 posted on 07/14/2003 6:39:38 AM PDT by Colofornian
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To: Colofornian
Thanks, I especially like the ones written by people who actually witessed it. Its interesting to me how their accounts are so similar.

This book by Ann Eliza Young has alot in it about apostates and gentiles being "killed by the Indians". She said most of the people knew that it was because they were leaving the church, and returning to the states.
31 posted on 07/14/2003 7:51:11 AM PDT by Delphinium
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To: Utah Girl
Instead of defending, why not look honestly at the information.

And BTW, circular reasoning is seen in mormon apologetics as well.
32 posted on 07/14/2003 9:24:23 AM PDT by Wrigley
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To: Delphinium
Try this book.
MASSACRES OF THE MOUNTAINS by J. P. Dunn Jr.

If you can find a copy. It was written about 1888.
33 posted on 07/14/2003 2:35:09 PM PDT by Ruy Dias de Bivar
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To: Wrigley
And who's to say I'm not honestly looking at the information? Just because I come to a very different conclusion than you do, doesn't mean that I am not looking at or reading the books. And don't hold your breath that I'm going to change my mind about my faith or my religion.
34 posted on 07/14/2003 8:22:59 PM PDT by Utah Girl
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To: Ruy Dias de Bivar
Thanks,I am going to search for that book.

None of my direct ancestors were involved in the Mountains Meadows Massacre, but others of the connecting families were. Mine had already escaped to Idaho by 1855.
35 posted on 07/14/2003 8:46:54 PM PDT by Delphinium
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To: Delphinium
Another interesting book I read about 30 years ago was written by John Nelson (or John Nelson Young ?) an indian fighter also known as Indian John Nelson. I can't remember the name of the book or if the author's correct name.

He tells of his life on the plains, his run in with the mormons and he was there when the Fancher train children were rescued. He later converted to mormonism but had to flee for his life when he was found to be apostate.
36 posted on 07/14/2003 9:43:10 PM PDT by Ruy Dias de Bivar
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To: Ruy Dias de Bivar
I love books like that. I wish could write my own. I just left a family get together with many people from the same historic Idaho town. Even though I have never lived there, I know more of the history than almost anyone who was raised there. I really need to get it written down in order. I am not very educated especially in the writing stuff or I might try to write books about it. There are a few things written from the Mormon perpective which overlooks alot of stuff.

My husband wrote a too revealing pro-Mormon book about 25 years ago, and got excommunicated from the church.

So why do you like NM better than the Ozarks? I lived in the Ozarks for only 1 1/2 years. It was okay in Arkansas, but misery in Missouri.
37 posted on 07/14/2003 10:03:06 PM PDT by Delphinium
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To: Delphinium
**So why do you like NM better than the Ozarks? I lived in the Ozarks for only 1 1/2 years. It
was okay in Arkansas, but misery in Missouri.***

I was born there and was moved to Arkansas when I was 9 years old. The people here at that time did not welcome outsiders so we found real quick we were not welcome.
We moved back to New Mexico several times but my dad always brought us back here.
I later went back to NM and then received notice of a very good job here so I returned here to take care of my parents till they died.

Too humid in summer.
way too many ticks amd chiggers. I never saw a tick till here.
very little open or public land to go 4 wheeling on.
Give me the 4 corners area of NM or southern Utah anyday!
38 posted on 07/14/2003 10:16:26 PM PDT by Ruy Dias de Bivar
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To: Ruy Dias de Bivar
My mother's father was from "Friendship" Arkansas. He was 1/2 Indian of some kind? Came to Idaho in 1906.It was pretty, and the people were wonderful but I was so homesick for wide open spaces, and clean fresh, clear water.
39 posted on 07/14/2003 10:22:40 PM PDT by Delphinium
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To: Utah Girl
Can the Mormon religion cope with BY being revealed as a very flawed human being, indeed very possibly a homicidal one under stress? I am confident it can. It just needs to do it, if the facts dictate, about which facts it should confront with total honesty, as it has not done so far (indeed it has not confronted the issue much at all IMO). Indeed if it, the Mormon Church does (and I admire the Church's pragmatic adaptibility, I consider that a virtue, not a flaw), I suspect the religion will prosper even more than it does now. Does it have the self confidence and moral courage to do so, at this juncture in its history? THAT is the question.
40 posted on 07/14/2003 11:17:09 PM PDT by Torie
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To: Wrigley
amazed this thread has survived bump

usually MMM wont make it past hour 2

Illbay would have none of it

.......hey - what ever happened to him?

41 posted on 07/15/2003 3:18:20 AM PDT by Revelation 911
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To: Utah Girl
Because I actually doubt you do seriously look at the evidence.
42 posted on 07/15/2003 4:27:48 AM PDT by Wrigley
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To: Revelation 911
re sickbay, does it really matter?

Number 40 is an interesting comment. I don't see the mormon church being that open and honest about its past. Too much other stuff would have to be exposed. Too much of a slippery slope. When image is the goal, don't open the dirty laundry.
43 posted on 07/15/2003 4:33:02 AM PDT by Wrigley
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To: All
From the article (a book review): For those who view Young as a great man who did little or no wrong, her tone will be blasphemous; for those who view him as a self-centered dictator or worse, her argument will seem highly credible.

In other words, where you start is where you end up. The book reinforces existing prejudices.

The book reviewer puts the word "blasphemy" in the mouths of the pro-Young people. That tells us where the reviewer is coming from. Let's save the blasphemy stuff for blasphemy against God.

Instead of honoring the dead and building bridges of peace between descendants on both sides (which President Hinckley has been doing for many years), those who endlessly bring up the Mountain Meadows Massacre seem to have only one purpose: attack the LDS Church by claiming President Young was somehow responsible. This is because any church organization would be apostate which kept a criminal as its leader.

Lots of people with an axe to grind want to brand him a totalitarian dictator with absolute control over a vast territory (without benefit of railroad or even telegraph lines in 1857) because that is the only way they can accuse him of responsibility with any credibility at all. But they do not succeed.

Quite the contrary:

Brigham Young was and is a true prophet of God and apostle of Jesus Christ who was faithful and true in keeping the commandments of God.

44 posted on 07/17/2003 8:34:56 AM PDT by White Mountain (By their fruits ye shall know them.)
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